Maxima Clams [Archive] - Saltwater Aquariums - Reef Tanks Online Discussion

Pineapple House

11-04-2002, 09:29 AM

definitely not!!

Maxima Clams, are the headrest to take care of, out of all the clams available in the market today. I realize that you say NO lighting, which is No Output. This species of clam will need Metal Halide lighting to live, but can survive under VHO/PC although that isn't the best thing for it. Even derasa clams, the easiest to take care of of the bunch, will either need high amounts of PC/VHO lighting, or MH lighting to live. These clams also, will need best of the best water quality. While these clams might be the most colorful, I would say wait until you have a significant amount of PC/VHO/MH until you tried one of these.

If you are interested in other corals, mushrooms are really the only coral that can likely live under your NO lighting. I would invest some of my money in good quality lighting from www.hellolights.com, such as PC/VHO/MH if you wanted to go into the reefkeeping hobby :-)

PH =)

clamlvr

11-04-2002, 09:35 AM

with 2 Normal Output light you will not be able to keep any clam alive, they will slowly starve to death, Crocea and Maximus espaecially need very high lighting they can be kept under VHO but do much better under metal halide IMO.also some hermits have been known to bother clams.

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 11:08 AM

Upgrade to PC and possibly go with a squasmosa...they don't have the intense blues and purples, but they are still attractive.

Pineapple House

11-04-2002, 11:44 AM

Upgrade to PC and possibly go with a squasmosa...they don't have the intense blues and purples, but they are still attractive.

I would go for higher amounts of PC lighting, instead of just saying PC lighting. I would go for a good 4wts per gallon+of PC lighting both atinic and daylight. check out www.hellolights.com for great deals on lighting.

PH =)

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 02:58 PM

I would go for higher amounts of PC lighting, instea od just saying PC lighting. I would go for a good 4wts per gallon+of PC lighting both atinic and daylight.

I don't find 4wts per gallon to be on the "higher" end of PC lighting. Plus there are other factors....like where the clam would be placed that take the "watt per gallon" rule and throw it out the window. Personally, I would take 2 96w Custom SeaLife Powerquads and mount them in a hood over the tank. This should help with your open brain as well.

While I am not a "renegade", I think a major mistake in the hobby is claiming a "absolutely necessary" lighting or other requirements on species we still don't really know a whole lot about. I have done thorough research lately and have found numerous posts of people successfully keeping croceas and maximas under PC lighting for that matter, not that this makes it "absolute" as the proper way to care for them either.

I just propose we stay away from terms like "have" and "cannot" on species or practices that we still don't have all the answers for yet. I remember being told my tank "had" to have a skimmer.....seems that may not be the "best" way anymore either! :wink:

BigE

11-04-2002, 03:16 PM

I would upgrade the lighting before any more corals are added to your tank. The brain is probably suffering from poor nutrition since the lighting is so low.

Seadazed

11-04-2002, 07:29 PM

To back up what HoopsGuru said I have heard of clams being kept under PC lighting with the clam growing and not loosing any color. But on the flip side I just read a post w/ pic's of a guy that had a Maxima under VHO only lighting for 1 year and it went from an awsome blue to an ungly brown. IMO I think the lighting a clam requires deals with two things: 1) What kind of lighting it was subjected to before reaching your tank 2) How large the clam is (small clams feed off things in the water column while gaining zooanthelle to help w/ photosynthesis). But with this being said I have read new studies that say that clams (regardless of the amount of light) still feed from the water column. So IMO there is alot more study that needs to be done. But it does seem that people have more success w/ clams under MH, but then again I don't think there is anywhere near as many people keeping them under PC or VHO so I guess the number would be in MH's favor anyway. HTH

phistio

11-04-2002, 07:48 PM

IMO clams might do well placed at the top of a reef with PC lighting...i'm thinking of getting one and placing him up high...i have 110w PC's on my 25 gallon...with the reflector i think i'm getting almost 6w/gallon...but not a the bottom of the tank.

Zack

11-04-2002, 08:07 PM

You have to relize that most clams prefer sand bed over rocksa you can try but you need to rember to much moving causes stree. I peresally would not put a clam in a pc tank with out first feeding it a lot or I beleive VHO and MH are needed

Pineapple House

11-04-2002, 08:36 PM

Of coarse, clams can be put under PC or VHO lighting, but it isn't the best thing for them. Maxima Clams are over 97% photosynthic (read that somewhere, correct me if im wrong), which is more than other species of clams. While they do filter feed throughout the water colomn, lighting is the mojoraty of its needs. Smaller clams will mostly filter feed the water, instead of using its phtosynthesis.

I would never attempt to keep a clam under anything but MH lighting, but thats JMO. They can survive under PC/VHO lighting, but it isn't the most sigifacant lighting source for it, although it is very posible :-)

PH =)

BigE

11-04-2002, 10:20 PM

I second the requirement for MH's before keeping clams. I've been reading quite a bit from others experience with keeping clams and many recommend only going with very high output MH's. most seem to recommend 250 as a minimum and 400's better. I'm sure they could stay alive under less lighting but for how long?? A big debate about anemones is the length they last in a tank. Most will live for 4 to 7 months before dying and then for some "odd reason" the hobyist can't figure out why it died. After all it lived for 5 months and was doing so well right??? In the wild they have plenty of Zooanthalle (sp?) but once under weak lights in the aquarium the zoo is slowly used up.

Heres my comparison...
Take your average office dweller, computer geak or personal assistant (secratery). Let them go about their business for months on end under the weak NO lights. then take them to Hawaii for a nice vacation. One day on the beach and talk about a sun burn. The same goes for Clams and Anemones, they need a good colorful sun burn to keep the zoo alive and thriving to provide food. Stick them under NO lighting and the sunburn slowly fades over time.

I'll definately agree that PC lighting is way stronger than NO but PC doesn't compare to MH. I have two tanks sitting side by side. With only one tanks lights on, the PC lights, I think "wow, thats pretty bright". Then I turn on the MH's in the other tank and there's no comparison. The PC's look like a night light.

Of course your lighting depends on the inverts you want to keep. PC's are great for shrooms and low light softies, but SPS, clams and anemones should be saved for MH lighting.

JMO of course :)

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 10:20 PM

You have to relize that most clams prefer sand bed over rocksa you can try but you need to rember to much moving causes stree
I totally disagree, both crocea and maxima are reef and sand dwelling clams....and the subject of most of the debate here. In addition, Barry from ClamsDirect suggests removing the clam and placing it in a bowl for feeding (to ensure it gets plenty of DT's).

Of coarse, clams can be put under PC or VHO lighting, but it isn't the best thing for them
Again, grouping all clams and suggesting that we know "exactly" what is "best" for them is not necessarily true. Clams are no different form high light corals, and it is already proven that PC and VHO lighting can easily be used, as long as the clams are not placed below 18" of the lightsource (intensity of PC's drops geometrically as this point is surpassed). To my knowledge, I found no information that croceas and maximas can only be placed under MH, but would be open to seeing such information.[/quote]

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 10:30 PM

I second the requirement for MH's before keeping clams. I've been reading quite a bit from others experience with keeping clams and many recommend only going with very high output MH's. most seem to recommend 250 as a minimum and 400's better. I'm sure they could stay alive under less lighting but for how long?? A big debate about anemones is the length they last in a tank. Most will live for 4 to 7 months before dying and then for some "odd reason" the hobyist can't figure out why it died. After all it lived for 5 months and was doing so well right??? In the wild they have plenty of Zooanthalle (sp?) but once under weak lights in the aquarium the zoo is slowly used up.

In my reefkeeping experience, I have seen many people declare that "only" one way can be succesful. In fact, until a few years ago, the whole idea of a DSB was considered ridiculous. People will always have their opinion of what is "right", but this does not make it so......perhaps all those who are using MH have never used PC?? :shock: In addition, I find it hard to give credibility to statements on animals that we really don't have all the answers for yet. I would like to point out the same anenome example you brought up. Recently, much attention (by Shimek and others) has been focused on the fact that perhaps feeding is the reason why anenomes are doing so poorly......not necessarily lighting. :shock: If lighting was all that was needed, all the people on the MH wagon would be ridiculously successful with them right now, other than bubble tips, they are not

Corals, clams, and other zooxanthellate animals will only use up so much of a lights intensity.....so blasting with MH may look a bit crisper and clearer, but this does NOT mean that I cannot reproduce the amount of light they actually need! :wink:

Pineapple House

11-04-2002, 10:35 PM

Again, grouping all clams and suggesting that we know "exactly" what is "best" for them is not necessarily true. Clams are no different form high light corals, and it is already proven that PC and VHO lighting can easily be used, as long as the clams are not placed below 18" of the lightsource (intensity of PC's drops geometrically as this point is surpassed). To my knowledge, I found no information that croceas and maximas can only be placed under MH, but would be open to seeing such information.

Of coarse, there is many debate over this issue. Derasa Clams tend to be much more hardy, and can survive under PC or VHO lighting, same with squasmosa clams. Crociea, and Maxima will need more intence lighting. Although there is a lot of debate on this, they do, do much better and will thrive if placed under MH lighting. If placed under PC/VHO, it might live, maybe even thrive, but it still would be a better idea to have them under MH.

Of coarse, Crocea's and Maxima clams can do poorly under VHO and PC, they do do much better under MH. Have you ever seen someone sucessfully keep a Maxima Clam, under PC/VHO lighting for over 2 or 3 years?

But again, this subject is very highly debatible, just like the anemone and lighting issue. Some say they focus mainly off of meaty foods that they will eat, others think it is all about the zooxanthellae :-)

PH =)

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 10:46 PM

If placed under PC/VHO, it might live, maybe even thrive, but it still would be a better idea to have them under MH.
If it could thrive, isn't that what we are looking for? :wink:

Ah yes, a very debatable subject...and this was enjoyable.

HoopsGuru

11-04-2002, 11:10 PM

So you encouraged me to dig a bit deeper. It seems the folks at WetWebMedia (Bob Fenner & company) feel that PC lighting can easily accomodate the needs of ALL clams. If a tremendous amount of intensity is not being used, they can be moved up (which is fine, especially for croceas and maximas). PC penetrates easily up to 18".

Pineapple House

11-04-2002, 11:41 PM

Yea, but it is still good to keep them under MH lighting. While they *might* thrive under the florecent lighting, most will not, unless they have great water quality. I still think that Maxima's and Croceas do much better off on MH lighting, rather than PC/VHO :D Everyone has a different thought on this :-) , thats why the whole point is very dabatible. But, have you ever seen someone keep a Maxima Clam for over 2-3 years under florecent lighting?

PH =)

HoopsGuru

11-05-2002, 01:57 AM

most will not, unless they have great water quality
And what are you basing your statement on, personal experience with a large number of clams under both PC and MH lighting, or most likely information you have found?

Most likely the latter is the case, and I have not been researching clams long enough to study the effects of PC, in fact I do not even think PC lighting has been widely used long enough to make such a such a statement valid either way. I would also like to know why you imply that MH will automatically make a clam "thrive" where with a PC they "might"?

Your opinions, while fine, are filled with a bit too much "do", "don't", "won't", etc....when they all should be similar to "might". If you want a record of 2-3 year longevities from maxima and crocea clams under PC light then i suggest you wait another year or so....I have a feeling there will be plenty. I highly doubt Fenner, Borneman, Calfo, etc. would be saying "yes" so easily if it wasn't an effective way of caring for them.

Dude

11-05-2002, 01:58 AM

As for clams being sand dwelling... I've done a fair amount of snorkeling in tropical areas and I've never seen a crocea, durasa, tridacna, etc in the sand. They have always been in the rocks or the coral heads. The shells in the sand were always empty.

When we were in Tahiti (Moorea), the damn clams were everywhere!!

BigE

11-05-2002, 03:48 PM

In my opinion, and only my opinion, I myself would not keep clams, sps and anemones under anything but MH lighting. I would also advise others in the same way because this is my opinion. Remebmer, if you ask 1000 aquarists how to keep a fish alive you'll get 1000 different answers.

matrixnyc

11-05-2002, 04:44 PM

Can someone post a picture of this clam.

I would like to see what you guys are all talking about :)

Thank you

Undr*H20

11-05-2002, 04:49 PM

Ok I guess I will jump into the fray,

For the longest time I thought that SPS and clams ( yes even maxima's) needed MH lights...which is what I have. This weekend I visited a local reefer who propogates hundreds of SPS and even had a clam or two in the prop tanks.... he does it all using VHO. 6 110 bulbs on each tank maybe 3 inches from the corals, they are the best corals I have ever seen hands down, no comparison. The colors were just the most viberant I have ever seen in any system. The two maxima's were doing quite well too. The showed full mantle extension and the all the SPS had nice polyp extension.

But, as for clams under No flos, I would highly doubt that...atleast get some VHO and put the clam at the very top of the tank. Actually maxima's prefer rock, once situated they release a type of enzyme that breaks downt he rock so they can burrow into it.

here is a maxima... these are not my clams ( I have a crocea and squam )

http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/images/clamtrio-lg.jpg

These are my two :)
http://joshtalley.smugmug.com/photos/5028/5028-Medium.jpg

Zack

11-05-2002, 08:18 PM

WOW nice pic yes I argee that fl will not do it for most if not all clams :D

HoopsGuru

11-05-2002, 11:21 PM

WOW nice pic yes I argee that fl will not do it for most if not all clams

Hmmm....how many have you kept to reach this opinion? I just don't find it appropriate nor beneficial to pass along information that is not fact, as fact. :wink: We simply don't know enough yet to start writing things in stone. There is a recent thread on the clam section of RC right now that states he found a missing maxima under a rock ledge, completely void of light for several months and assumed to be dead......it had grown considerably and was healthy as ever! Now is this possible or just an exception.....debatable, but it DID occur.

Zack

11-06-2002, 01:41 AM

[quote]WOW nice pic yes I argee that fl will not do it for most if not all clams

Hmmm....how many have you kept to reach this opinion? I just don't find it appropriate nor beneficial to pass along information that is not fact, as fact.

Ok I see where you are going with that. But yes as a matter of fact I do have experenece with this :oops: My friend decided he liked it and my lfs said ok your lighting will do. It had been at the lfs for servael monthes thriving under mh. He took it home 4 days later even after feeding it it died under NO lighting. and as well as many experts have said how NO lighting's wave lenth is not enough for this. I can keep going if anyone would like. 8)

Pineapple House

11-06-2002, 02:00 AM

Clams have an almost 0 chance of living longer than 2 months under NO lighting. I saw the thread you were refering too, very interesting if you ask me. But, I would think that there must of been another food source that the clam had to live off of for those 7 months. A clam living off of nothing (no zooxanthellae, and hardly any plankton) sounds unbelievable, but I guess it could happen :?

Some studies show that a clam can loose its zooxanthellae in as short as a period as a month. I think there must have been some lighting hitting the clam, or the clam was completly filter feeding throughout the water. But thats just a thought

Clams under NO lighting have a very strong chance of dying within the first month. While I cannot say they 'will' die (since I bet someone out there kept a clam under NO lighting and had it live) there is a huge posibility that they will.

Also hoops, I did some more info on Maxima's under florecent lighting. While they can live under PC or VHO lighting, halides will be much more sigifacant for it. More people have had success with them under Halides, than VHO or PC. I guess they can live under it, but again, I wouldn't try it.

PH =)

Undr*H20

11-06-2002, 08:15 AM

I believe the thread you are referring to was by Jim the master clam keeper :)

The clam in question was a small clam if my memory is right. Clams under 3" can almost go without light you are correct, their zooanthile ( sp ) is not developed enough to sustain them, so they need to be feed heavily. Jim feeds his tanks, in his words, to the max. That would explain how the clam lived without any light.

Please don't try to keep a clam over 3" in inadequate light, it might live for a while...but the long term survival of the clam is what we should all be worried about.

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 09:20 AM

. He took it home 4 days later even after feeding it it died under NO lighting. and as well as many experts have said how NO lighting's wave lenth is not enough for this. I can keep going if anyone would like.

Zach....I haven't EVER proposed that Normal Output lighting is sufficient for clams. My main focus has been on Power Compact lights.

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 09:28 AM

Please don't try to keep a clam over 3" in inadequate light, it might live for a while...but the long term survival of the clam is what we should all be worried about.

It seems to me as though for a quite some time, people have put the label of "MH only" on quite a number of things. Most actual experts and not those just self proclaimed agree that PC lighting is perfectly fine for the long term care of clams. Of course, reason has to be followed, you can't put a 32w Smartlamp over a 180g and put the clam on the sand and expect it to thrive. MH is recommended because it takes the thinking out of the equation, it is not necessary to concentrate on placement as much. This does NOT mean that it is the only way for optimal health.

The fact the 3" clam survived with no light must be interesting enough since Jim will now be experimenting with low light levels.....this just further goes to prove that if we still don't EXACTLY know how these animals can and do survive, the we should NOT be placing labels on them as far as how they HAVE to be cared for.

BigE

11-06-2002, 01:02 PM

I'm wondering who here has personal experience keeping clams under PC or VHO lighting? I'm curious about things like how long they have been alive in the tank, positioning and major tank components like lighting, if skimmer or refugium are present?

Undr*H20

11-06-2002, 01:36 PM

For the longest time I thought that SPS and clams ( yes even maxima's) needed MH lights...which is what I have. This weekend I visited a local reefer who propogates hundreds of SPS and even had a clam or two in the prop tanks.... he does it all using VHO.

I never said that you couldn't do some clams under VHO I guess even pc, just not No Flo. There is a general consensus, based on thousands of reef keepers, that clams do best under MH lights. This is a non arguable point, we don't need to try to re invent the wheel here. If MH weren't the best thing going for high light species, then no one would have them.. they are very expensive to run.

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 02:12 PM

There is a general consensus, based on thousands of reef keepers, that clams do best under MH lights. This is a non arguable point, we don't need to try to re invent the wheel here. If MH weren't the best thing going for high light species, then no one would have them.. they are very expensive to run.

PC has not been on the market long enough to be used widely by reefers, and certainly the "thousands" you quote would not be trading in their MH for PC to "test them out". So your quote is only half true, MH were the best of their time, but we shall still see whether PC can help even this out. As i've said over and over, many of the experts don't hesitate to say that PC is fine for long term care of clams, this deserves some merit. No doubt all corals would be best under MH, but you don't see MH pushed for reefs period (although MH owners sure do) so it shouldn't be described as the "only" way for some animals, when there is an efficient substitute that can allow it to thrive.

MH is indeed the pinnacle of lighting intensity, but it has that many drawbacks (cost, energy, heat) that many reefers can't use them. Thus, I would hesitate to call them the "best". PC is much more versatile.

Here is a quote from an indepent party:"Power Compact Fluorescent
In our opinion, Power Compact bulbs are one of the most valuable innovations in the aquarium hobby in recent years. Power Compact bulbs consist of U-shaped fluorescent tubes that are almost half the diameter of a regular fluorescent bulb. They work the same way as a fluorescent tube but the surface area of the tube has been increased slightly and more phosphors added. They require more electricity than regular fluorescents but the payoff is huge! They produce nearly four times the light-output per watt than regular fluorescents and in our experience, degrade slower and last longer. They come close to the output of metal halide bulbs with relatively-precise color temperature production, though metal halide bulbs produce a far broader spectrum range. They also produce much less heat than metal halide lamps.

There is no question that metal halide lighting is still (and probably always will be) the mainstay of marine reef aquarium lighting. However, we have rarely seen a reef aquarium lit by metal halide bulbs that did not require a chiller for success, unless the aquarium was located in a cool room or was equipped with some form of major ventilation system. PowerCompact bulbs allow many photo-receptive species to be kept without the intense heat produced by halides. Research has shown that many stony corals, clams, and other sessile species that depend on photosynthesis of zooanthellic algae not only thrive but also propagate when maintained under PowerCompact lighting alone."

Taken from http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/lamptypes.htm

So as it was since the beginnng, my opinion is still that MH should not be termed as the "only" way to keep clams happy. By doing so, it unfairly isolates all except those lucky enough to have large enough tank and pocketbook to accomodate the expenses that come with it. This is especially ignorant when there is a viable alternative.

Undr*H20

11-06-2002, 03:08 PM

PC has not been on the market long enough to be used widely by reefers, and certainly the "thousands" you quote would not be trading in their MH for PC to "test them out".
I don't have to, just look at the lumens/lux output data.

so it shouldn't be described as the "only" way for some animals, when there is an efficient substitute that can allow it to thrive.
I never have said it was the only way to go, just perhaps the best in reagrds to light loving species.

They come close to the output of metal halide bulbs with relatively-precise color temperature production, though metal halide bulbs produce a far broader spectrum range.
This is a misleading statement, at first glance you would think it meant the output of the lamp in lux/lumens. It matches the color temp. ( K rating )... big deal No flo's are made in 10K as well. Is that from an advertisment for pc setups... it sure does sound like it.

However, we have rarely seen a reef aquarium lit by metal halide bulbs that did not require a chiller for success, unless the aquarium was located in a cool room or was equipped with some form of major ventilation system.
Rarely??? I have a 250 HQI over my 29 gallon, it's in a pendent 8 " over the water with only one da' shack fan blowing across the water. My temp never gets above 81.

We could go on and on, I respect your opinion... everyone has one. These debates are what moves the hobby forward. No one can argue with success, if it works then great....I am just trying to stear someone in what I feel in the proper direction...just like you are.[/quote]

BigE

11-06-2002, 03:25 PM

I agree that the cost of buying as well as running MH's is higher than PC's. I don't see how people have such a hard time with heat problems from MH's though. When running PC's I had problems with the hood heating up and then when it cooled it would pop from the wood flexing. With my MH's I've used some spacers to keep the reflectors 1/4 inch away from the wood and a fan blowing between the reflectors and wood canopy and also over the bulbs. The 2 fans keep the air under the hood nice and cool. The hood has no signs of heating what so ever.
In my opinion PC's are a great way to go but once the tank starts getting deeper and the inverts start getting more light demanding I would opt for the MH's. I'd rather have plenty of intensity, rather than enough as long as I keep the clam 3 inches from the bulb.
When someone says Clams, SPS or Anemone I think MH.
When someone says Softies I think PC.
When someone says Fish Only I think NO.
Is this a rule everyone has to follow? no
But if you don't I might come after you.... :twisted:
Just kidding :!: :lol: :!:

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 03:40 PM

I enjoyed this thread as well....I think it achieved a purpose of providing a wealth of information for people to evaluate and decide for themselves.....that PC is the way to go! HAHA :lol: :wink:

Now isn't there an anenome thread around here.... 8)

BigE

11-06-2002, 04:00 PM

The debate goes on.... :D

GO MH :!: :idea: :!: :idea: :!:

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 04:25 PM

I don't have to, just look at the lumens/lux output data.

FWIW, I did, and found that for BOTH PC and MH, the lumens per watt consumed is around 60-80.

And as far as lux is concerned, it is difficult to compare the two because of the differences in reflectors etc. For example, you use a pendent, which is considered to waste a bit of light, so your MH lux could be far different from one in a custom enclosure...so on and so forth.

Undr*H20

11-06-2002, 04:46 PM

My point exactly,

watts is the amount of energy comsumed... which is why the watts/gallon rule is almost usless.

Look at the output, lux/lumens

These are rough numbers but the lumens of a

250 watt MH - 22,000 lumens ( insert Tim Allen grunts here )
250 watts of PC - 3,125 lumens ( insert baby crying here )

These numbers are based on the bulb capacity - the actual numbers may vary... a bit.

No comparison :)

BigE

11-06-2002, 04:48 PM

GO MH :!: :!: :!:

BigE

11-06-2002, 05:01 PM

Zack

11-06-2002, 06:35 PM

Here's a site that explains how the lumens decline over distance.
http://www.howstuffworks.com/experiment2.htm
This is why MH's work better on deeper tanks and why clams kept in a tank lit with PC's need to be kept a tthe top of the water column

Thanks for the site but as I metioned earlier most clams like to be on dsb, but I guess if you need to you can put them on the rocks imo

BigE

11-06-2002, 07:08 PM

EastCoastClams

11-06-2002, 07:21 PM

Just to add my 2 cents.

Crocea clams are the most light seeking clam. They also have the largest byssal gland that helps them hang onto and burrow into rocks and coralheads on the reef crest. Size up to about 9 inches.

Maxima clams are second most light dependant. Their byssal gland are a little smaller but are still found attached to rocks in nature. They generally are found a little deeper in the wild than Crocea's. Maxima's reach up to about 15 inch range.

Squamosa clams are able to attch to rockwork but are generally found in deeper water in substrate. Sizes go up to 16 inches.

Derasa clams are found in similar condiotions to Squamosa's and reach sizes up to over 20 inches.

Gigas clams are true giants and reach sizes of over 3 feet. They can weigh over 500 pounds. I preach to people not to buy these. They will get to large for 99% of private reefs. They are found down deep, and in the sand.

Clams usually are not light dependant until they reach a size of 2.5 to 3". They are filter feeders and also take advantage of light. Reefkeepers would do the clams a favor if they fed a good live phtyoplankton like DT's. Dt's will also benifit almost all other creatures in your tank.

There is quite a bit of info on my website about clams. Great links to info from Daniel Knopp.

Happy clamming everyone!

Rob from East Coast

EastCoastClams

11-06-2002, 07:24 PM

O yeah forgot about lighting.

Metal halides are preferred. Clams can be kept under VHO and Power Compacts. If you choose other than Metal Halides please keep your clams high in the rockwork. Better if you also feed them DT's or the like.

I have kept both Crocea's and Maxima's under Power Compact without problem. When I moved clams under Metal Halides the growth was quite a bit faster.

Best of luck, Rob from East Coast!

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 11:01 PM

Thanks for the info Rob!! In your opinion, since the clams under VHO and PC grew slower, was this detrimental to their health?

HoopsGuru

11-06-2002, 11:32 PM

Look at the output, lux/lumens

These are rough numbers but the lumens of a

250 watt MH - 22,000 lumens ( insert Tim Allen grunts here )
250 watts of PC - 3,125 lumens ( insert baby crying here )

These numbers are based on the bulb capacity - the actual numbers may vary... a bit.

Lux and lumens are not the same thing, which is what i explained with the lumen per watt consumed comparison. If you are going by lumens, 250w of MH or 250w of PC are almost identical, both give about 60-80 lumens per watt consumed. So your number are off way more than "a bit".

And as i said before, if you have numbers of lux output of both, they are off by more than "a bit" as well because lux will vary GREATLY with how well the light is reflected, distance etc.

(insert Tim Allen's career now.... :cry: )

Pineapple House

11-06-2002, 11:45 PM

My point in going with MH is to be able to keep inverts that require high amounts of intensity all over the tank. PC lighting would require the clam to be kept at the top of the tank which in my opinion could end up looking kind of silly.
There's a fish store about an hour from me that has an awsome tank setup with clams all over the rockwork and a huge foot long clam on the sand. The web site is http://www.exoticfish.com
They easily have the best reef setup I've ever seen. The tank is probably 300 gallons
A second for Jeffs Aquatic Fish :D I love their show tank... I think I recacall seeing that huge clam...lol, it's seems about 13" long! Anyway, that would be my favorite LFS. I usually go their every 2 weeks, to see the new stuff that has arived :-) I would highly recommend them :-D

PH =)

Undr*H20

11-07-2002, 12:16 AM

They aren't my numbers, they are the manufactures numbers. I just extrapolated out the PC lumens.

Here (http://www.thepetstop.com/fish_shop/Lighting/CustomSeaLife/PrismPendants.html)

Down about the middle of the page, there are several sites that have the same data.....

Or you could look at it like this, although I don't think this is the best way

MH - 84 lumens / watt

PC - 21 lumens / watt ( based on the 7100 K not the actinic )

My fault grouping lux/lumens together... two seperate things I know.

HoopsGuru

11-07-2002, 01:22 AM

This website is not correct.....the page may say 7100k but they are describing actinic bulbs....a way of describing actinic 03 bulbs is 7100k. In fact if you read the description of each fixture, they are for 3 types of Prism Pendants that have a 2x28 Ultra Radiant Actinics paired with either a 175w, 250w, or 400w MH bulb. If you go to a site such as Custom SeaLife (http://www.customsealife.com/NewFiles/prism.html) that actually makes the pendent, you will find it is indeed 2 actinics and a 5500k MH of choice.

Check out HERE (http://www.cyberreefguru.com/lighting/new-lighting2.html), you will find that it describes calling actinic 03 bulbs 7100k, right after it gives accurate lumen readings.....PC and MH lumen outputs are pretty much identical! :shock: (Not to mention PC puts out more light than VHO :wink: )

I'd say you chose MH because you like it and heard it was the best, not that you know how or why it might be better. Maybe you shouldn't stomp all over PC if you haven't really researched it (reinsert Tim Allen grunt here) :D (this is in good fun, I don't know you much yet so i figured I should toss out the disclaimer :wink: )

EastCoastClams

11-08-2002, 07:34 PM

Well they did grow slower. I did not notice any health issues, but they were very high up in the rockwork. I also had perfect water conditions(if I may say so myself) and there was still 400 watts of Power Compact lighting. I also fed Dt's regularly.

Professional opinion is Metal halides all the way. Power compacts and VHO can be done, with the right amount of lights, and feeding your clams Dt's or another good live phyto is not only a great idea for your clams, but for your whole reef tank.

Rob from East Coast Clams

reeflounge_admin

11-14-2002, 06:50 PM

the purpose of the discussion forum is to discuss various topics, and I think that is what is going on in this post, so i decided to unlock it.

I hope you all enjoy this topic and this site.

Undr*H20

11-17-2002, 01:16 AM

Hey it's back from the dead :-)

Pineapple House

11-17-2002, 02:33 AM

Hey it's back from the dead :-)
Just Like Kenny McCormic http://www.fishgeeks.com/images/avatars/gallery/toons/southpark.gif

:lol:

PH =)

ssgibby

11-17-2002, 11:04 AM

thats a neat animated gif

Pineapple House

11-25-2002, 11:56 PM

thats a neat animated gif
Yeah. I saw it as an avitar for the saltwater moderator, I think Terry. It's a cool little gif eh?

PH =)

Irisservice

11-28-2002, 02:39 PM

Just saw some Maxima's Clams for the first time up close in my local fish store. They look cool. Now I know why people go crazy for them. The tank was a 125g with 3 250 watt MH Spacelight. So those made them look even better.

Zack

01-01-2003, 09:57 PM

me to I saw at lfs WOW :shock:

Pineapple House

01-01-2003, 10:13 PM

I think I took a picture of a Maxima clam a couple days ago, although it might be a different species. The picture doesn't really capture its color (Bright blue, green rims, black lines), but here it is:

PH =)

killroysrevenge

01-02-2003, 08:42 AM

:twisted: Now its my turn!!!
One of the previous post said that the LFS had 3-250w MH over clams. That is 6w/gal. I have 8w/gal. of VHO.

MH are for big tanks that cant fit 15 VHO bulbs under the hood. They are a concentrated source of light. I have a 29 gal tank and It is not as deep as Mr. 4000's tank. I would dare say that Mr.4000 would not use PC's or VHO's for this tank unless he just wanted mushrooms and polyps.

The tank size and depth depends alot on lights. I would not put a MH on my tank if you gave it to me. Its not big enough. I would be brave enough to say that you could probably keep a clam in a 10 gal with 80w of NO. But I wouldnt try it with a 90 gal tank with 90w NO. It is just common sense.

MH are not the cure all to reef tanks. However they are very convient for big tanks. A 55 gal tank would need MH IMO. It would be hard to put 6 or 7 VHO's under the hood.

It is just obvious that MH are too hot for small tanks. The other options are VHO an PC. I have little knowledge on PC's but I am sure that they are just as good as the other light sources.

To all that want clams. Just dont put the clam under 3 - 4 watts/gal. Try 6-10.

wastwage

01-04-2003, 09:22 PM

man can that guy argue or what

killroysrevenge

01-06-2003, 08:14 AM

It is not so much as argueing, as it is simply different points of veiw and difference in past reading. There are alot of people who ask advice and get not entirely true advice, and then they pass it along. It is not their fault, they are just repeating what they hear or read. :?

I like the MH's, the ripple effect it gives the light is very oceanic. :idea:
If and when I step up to a bigger tank I will upgrade to a MH and VHO combo.

Basically in this hobby there is no right way, correct way, or sure way.

Reef tanks have only been around 20 or 30 yrs. and is still progressing very fast. There are 5000 ways to do everything.

If you dont mind algae you could raise clams with enough of any kind of lights.

It is just like the DSB, I can show you a forum where everyone hates it.
And on the contrary there are just as many people who love a DSB.
Me personally I dont like fine sand, but the 1/8 inch in dia. argonite sand. Its a little bigger than playsand. Wont turn to concrete but is a DSB. And alot of people like Crushed Coral. To each his/her own.

But no one is limited to a certain thing, if they want certain animals.

Sorry, You could go on for ever about any subject.

reeferdude

11-10-2003, 02:02 PM

Wow that took a long time to read all those posts. I noticed that these were posted back in 2002. My question is since a year has passed and PC's have been out on the market longer what is the general concensus (if such a thing exists) on raising clams with PC lighting????

Fishmonger

11-10-2003, 03:57 PM

They still lose their striking apearance, its really the intensity of the MH's that bring them out, i don't have clams myself, but i've seen several in different tank settings

Nemo73

05-23-2004, 04:46 AM

I love clams they are awesome... :D

thomas1102

05-31-2004, 04:57 PM

what about t-5? im getting mine soon and planning on getting a derasa for the bottom and a maxima or crocia(?) for the upper rockwork of the tank. i will have 332w on a 90g tank.

Shizznit

05-31-2004, 05:11 PM

Well in my experience if you don't have metal halide lighting then you shouldn't even bother with either of the two species of clam mentioned.Crocea clams need alot of light.Maxima clams are a close second as far as lighting goes.Besides your tank has only a little over 3 watts a gallon which,imo,is not nearly enough light for the two clams mentioned.Now I know that the watts per gallon rule is not set in stone but unless your tank is less than 15 inches tall then you will have to go with metal halide lighting if you absolutely want to keep either of the clams mentioned for long term.Of course this is just my opinion.