Frogspawn

[tim2]

I just got my first frogspawn coral and was hoping for some input as to the best spot in my tank. Up high,down low, strong current, or light.??? Thanks,Tim

[Pineapple House]

You really should have done this before you got the coral :roll:

Anyway,

Frogspawns will do fine with some decent lighting. It can all matter on the type of lighting you have, rather than follow the 'High, low, middle' stratagy. While it will give you a guidline, it's not exact. You will be looking for the most accurate thing you can fine, not exactly a guidline. I can see you have PC lighting, frogspawns will do fine, probably thriving under power compact lighting.

Frogspawns do best with medium to high lighting. There a few species of frogspawn availble today; some green, some more branching, some brownish. While it doesn't matter too much on the species when it comes to placement, it would help to know.

I would place it around the middle of your tank, away from any neighboring corals, esspecielly softies. They do best with medium current, just enough flowing that they sway with the current, not that much so that the tentacles are forced and draged here and there carelessly.

I would also place the frogspawn in a certain position so that all the heads get the same amount of care. Sometimes what will happen is, one head gets all the attention (light), while the others are behind it, loosing some of their zooxanthellae, and slowely dying off.

PH =)

[phistio]

be forewarned that frogspawn have a very long reach when it comes to stinging neighboring corals!

although they're right up there with my favorite types of corals!!! :wink:

[tim2]

Thanks for the info. I didnt mean to sound as though I hadnt done any homework beforehand because i did. I still like to run it by you all because sometimes the books leave out a lot of good info. fwiw you were right on with the book this time too! Ive got it in a spot just like you described and it is extended and so far doing fine, Its a green one . Thanks Tim

[HoopsGuru]

Don't forget to feed! Most LPS corals require direct feeding to survive. My best suggestion would be to purchase Sweetwater Zooplankton or finely chop of other meaty foods and direct feed with a turkey baster.

Self Edit! On accord that I hate putting a "definite" on anything in the saltwater hobby, I have changed my "all" to "most" above. My opinion that feeding is required remains.

[steve1s]

Don't forget to feed! All LPS corals require direct feeding to survive. My best suggestion would be to purchase Sweetwater Zooplankton or finely chop of other meaty foods and direct feed with a turkey baster.

I find that hard to support. I have many LSP corals and never give any effort to their feeding. Mabye twice a month the tank will get some filter foods but that's about it. Unless they like flake foods and are able to catch them on their way by, then they are not getting solid foods.

So far this year I have split my frogspawn twice and my octopus coral three times. Solid foods may speed up their growth, but by no means are they dependant on solid foods for survival.

Cheers
Steve

[HoopsGuru]

Going only on your theory, not your tank, most experts would disagree with you.

From Robert Fenner & Anthony Calfo: "Large polyped stony corals (so-called LPS species) are some of the hungriest and most carnivorous cnidarians. They include many coral that can digest minced meaty foods (although this is still too large for most) and even eat the popular, prepared invertebrate food suspensions (caution here: bottled food supplements are easily abused). Categorically, most LPS feed on zooplankton, larvae/eggs, feces and are surely nourished by absorption. It is not clear how much if any (gross terms, again) phytoplankton is favored by LPS corals: notably the Euphylliids, Fungiids, Faviids, Mussids and Dendrophylliids."

"Please be sure that you are feeding all of these LPS almost daily or they starve very slowly over time
(and swell while panning for light in the meantime making you think they are growing!)."

Eric Borneman also directly states several times in his coral husbandry book that all species will welcome feeding.

Now, I don't discount your success, it obvious, but I would like to know more about your system. I already see in your signature you state that you have a reef tank with fish. I would guess that in feeding your fish you are also inadvertantly feeding your corals through the actual food, waste, etc. LPS also feed through absorption, so perhaps your system is able to temporarily make up some of the difference in this way or through good lighting as well.

[Zack]

Hoops you think DT's will be ok for LPS?

[HoopsGuru]

While I think it is a great product, I think more of a meatier food would more directly benefit most LPS. However, this doesn't mean you can't add some DT's, just don't direct feed with this under the assumption that it will meet the needs of the coral.

Knowing your system, I think the addition of your fishless refugium will go a long way towards naturally feeding your LPS.

[steve1s]

Going only on your theory, not your tank, most experts would disagree with you.


Now, I don't discount your success, it obvious, but I would like to know more about your system. I already see in your signature you state that you have a reef tank with fish. I would guess that in feeding your fish you are also inadvertantly feeding your corals through the actual food, waste, etc. LPS also feed through absorption, so perhaps your system is able to temporarily make up some of the difference in this way or through good lighting as well.

Whether the experts would agree with me or not is unimportant to me. I speak from personal experience and not theory!

If LPS corals required direct feedings, then by your standards on what is needed to keep them growing, mine should be dead. As I stated in the previous post, I do not directly feed them. I use Kent Micro-vert twice a month and feed the fish only flake foods. I agree that they will absorb nutrition from the water, although I do not know what you mean by temporary. If secondary feeding is temporary, then how would they have thrived and grown over the years. I frag my corals 2-3 times a year and trade them with the LFS for odds and sods. If I didn't they would outgrow the tank.

The lighting is nothing extravagant either. 2x10,000k days and 2x7100k 03's, 96 watt per bulb.

Other than correcting the water chemistry, I do nothing else. I am not saying you cannot feed them if you want accellerated growth. I am saying direct feedings are unneccesary to maintain healthy LPS corals.

[Zack]

Great, I love two different ideas. thanks to you both for your ideas! Gosh i love how people have different theorys and thoughts!

[HoopsGuru]

My comment on theory was because I know nothing about your system, therefore I was only going to comment on the ideals behind feeding corals before you elaborated.

You didn't mention much as to whether you use a skimmer, how often and what you feed your fish, etc. I thought I was clear that you could have other reasons for your success.

I personally have seen much better growth (calcification) since I started direct feeding my LPS and wanted to point out that my experience was supported by experts in the field as you asked for. I've yet to say that you are incorrect nor unsuccessful with your methods, quite the contrary in fact, just that I would like to know more about your system.

[steve1s]

Other than what I have mentioned already. Here is a link to a previous post with the equip.

http://reeflounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=393&highlight=

Cheers
Steve

[HoopsGuru]

Koran angel
Flame angel
Lunare wrasse
Clown wrasse
Cleaner wrasse
Yellow tang
Regal tang
Mandarine dragonet
Lawnmower blenny
2 Pink skunk clownes
2 ft Snowflake eel


Well holy smokes! :D If I had remembered this post I could have given a better opinion right away. With this impressive and diverse fish load, I would safely assume you feed your tank quite often to support them. There is no doubt in my mind that your corals get to feed from this. The waste from the fish alone could probably help support their needs. I would also attribute your large amount of liverock to provide a great deal of natural food for them, similar to how it provides food for your mandarin.

I don't think it's safe to say though that your system may be the typical aquarium. I would still encourage others to direct feed their LPS, at least initially, even if the setup replicates that of the above. They are one of the most carnivorous corals on the reef and these needs should be met. You can always change methods once the coral is thriving in your tank.

Thanks for providing the info Steve.

[steve1s]

One additional note concerning the feeding.

They are only fed once a day using flake. The amount would be similar in space to that of a quarter. Also about twice a month I skip a days feeding.

I agree that fish wastes would contribute to their feeding just as much as unconsumed foods would, albeit with less nutritional value. One reason I have always advocated that reef aquarists should be patient when the tank is still new. Once the tank has been set up for a decent enough time, it will support these types of animals on it's own, given the light is up to standard.

I would agree, as you touched upon, that in a newer system direct feedings may be needed in the very early stages of a tank (less than 6 months) where there has not been enough time to establish a stable ecological base. But in the long term in regards to natural growth, I would still not directly feed them. As you say though, you can always change it later... :wink:

Cheers
Steve

[HoopsGuru]

Wow, we almost agree! :shock: :D :wink:

I would still recommend anyone even with a refugium or other natural means to directly feed at least once or twice per week regardless of the age of the system to ensure these corals get their requirements. Even if they are getting natural food, direct feeding cannot be detrimental.

[RazerCorals]

From personal experience I think that they pick up enough food from feeding your fish. Make sure to have good light on them so they can do photosynthesis. Remember there are 2 parts to photosynthesis, Light and Dark.

[ERIC]

Sorry to disagree, but feeding frogspawn is an exercise in futility.As long as you have sufficient fish populations and feeding these animals should be adequetly fed.Light is more important than food.