ok this will be the first time [Archive] - Saltwater Aquariums

HoopsGuru

11-18-2002, 11:32 PM

LPS are fairly delicate. Improper handling or just the bumping around in delivery could be a major problem. They are incredibly common and don't have any unique color strains, so why not just buy them at your LFS?

Irisservice

11-18-2002, 11:49 PM

If you want a good assortment of coral frags go to www.garf.org they have 10 SPS for $100 and or 14 softies for $100.I got the softies and love them it is cool to get them from the beginning and watch them grow. All my have survived and no DOA's.

Check out the link to see mine. They all have doubled and tripled in size since then.
http://reeflounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=37

phistio

11-19-2002, 10:36 AM

whoever the corals are bought from, i cannot stress the importance of proper shipping enough!!!

corals should never be exposed to air...

properly packed corals should be double bagged, and a third bag should be wrapped around the coral underwater (plastic wrap works fine as well...i've seen some aquatic specialist use bubblewrap.) this way the corals are never exposed to air. coral will coat them selves over with a protective wax-like substance, that they will slough within a few days of acclimation.

this is how they should be transported even in the 2 mile drive from the LFS...

Zack

11-19-2002, 08:47 PM

sorry this was meant to be in vendor lounge but great advise thanks

Pineapple House

11-19-2002, 08:52 PM

I agree with the information above.

IMO, and only IMO, you should never order anything online.

1. You never know 'exactly' what you are buying. Many times you will order an un healthy fish, or a fish that won't eat, and slowely starves. For all you know, this fish could be half dead by the time you recieve it. Next, the fish could have injories from un proper shipping. Same goes for corals. LPS could end up cracked.

2. Sometimes it is stressfull for fish to go through shipping, some, usually more delecate species come back with ich.

Still, thats JMO. Some people have great luck with ordering online :-)

PH =)

Zack

11-19-2002, 10:29 PM

yes but the prices at my lfs are only about 3-4 TIMES AS MUCH, so I thought hey why not give it a shot anyone had any luck with a good company

HoopsGuru

11-19-2002, 11:46 PM

Well, prices may vary......size will also dictate a price.....I find it hard to believe that LPS at your LFS of small to medium size are $30-40 cheaper on the internet than at your LFS. I got all three of my LPS (small-medium) for $29.99 each.

I have heard good things about GARF and FFExpress, but I have also heard stories of 50% loss as well. I wouldn't take the chance.....now this is considering that you are still talking about LPS corals, IMO they probably would have a tough time in transit. I was nervous enough about getting mine home from just the LFS let alone being shipped.

Pineapple House

11-20-2002, 12:46 AM

yes but the prices at my lfs are only aboyt 3-4 TIMES AS MUCH, so I thought hey why not give it a shot anyone had any luck with a good company
Why don't you check out some Local Reefers tanks? Usually people are willing to frag/give away some corals, usually extremely cheap.

As far as good sites to order from, I don't know...I never ordered anything online :-D

PH =)

phistio

11-20-2002, 11:25 AM

PH...i agree...IMO, and only IMO i think it's hard to buy online...i have to inspect the species, know it's doing healthy...you never know what your going to get online...personally i don't do it, nor do i reccommend it.

however, online vendors have to retain some sort of quality, or they'd never last in the business...the internet has become a powerful thing in allowing merchats to expand their business to consumers world wide...and best of all it helps in fair competition of prices!

but for me, personally, i have to examine the specimen whatever it may be for some time...sometimes, when i see something i like at the LFS, i might put a deposit (or pay in full) and continue to monitor the specimen while at the LFS...this especially goes for newly arrived fish...i'll let them stay at least a week, and make sure they're eating healthily, no parasitic outbreaks, etc. if a problem arises, my LFS usually refunds me or gives me in store credit...

most LFS will do this, and have no problem in doing so...and if they don't consider it...it may be time to look for a new LFS...just my opinion...

HoopsGuru

11-20-2002, 01:30 PM

Phistio's thread brings up an important point. If you do decide to order online (I still don't recommend it but for a last resort), I would urge you to set up a quarantine tank. While it should be a rule to begin with, without being able to see the specimen(s) beforehand I would make it an absolute necessity. There is no way I would introduce it to my main tank without leaving it in the Q-tank for at least two weeks to allow me to monitor it, and also for it to get over the stress of shipping without the extra stress of new neighbors. If you can't set up a quarantine environment, then I would definitely pass on ordering online.

justletmein

11-21-2002, 12:59 AM

Since you got only 1 answer to your question I'll chime in here. I've had great experiences with the following internet based mail order companies (in order), all of which have good guarantees.

liveaquaria.com
marinedepotlive.com
saltwaterfish.com
reeftopia.com

HoopsGuru

11-21-2002, 01:53 PM

I think his specific question was not only where but:

If it goes bad my folks will never let me do it again so what u think

I know personally, I gave 3 answers as to my opinion on ordering LPS corals that required feedback from Zack...and several others gave opinions on the topic as well. If I don't think it is a wise idea (I still don't know if you are still specifically focusing on LPS Zack and what ones in particular :wink: ) then I certainly wouldn't recommend an online fish retailer to do so. :?:

Zack

11-21-2002, 08:24 PM

hey guys
thanks sooooooo much for all your ideas. I will probly not unless I need to like lfs go out of bunnisse. anyway I am pritty much only intrested in lps so I guess lfs here I come, leathers are oft corals right?

HoopsGuru

11-21-2002, 08:54 PM

anyway I am pritty much only intrested in lps so I guess lfs here I come, leathers are oft corals right?

I'm going to have to email your English teacher :wink: :lol: . I am confused....I think you may have LPS mixed up with leathers? Or are you just combining two things into a single question?

To throw a dart out, LPS are Large Polyp Stony corals and are hard corals. Leathers are soft corals.

Pineapple House

11-21-2002, 10:19 PM

Agreed.

LPS corals all have one thing in common....they all have a calcium based skeleton (along with having large polyps). Soft corals don't have this skeleton, and depend on their rubber-like tissue to stand strait up.

PH =)

justletmein

11-21-2002, 11:03 PM

Hoops, I wasn't attacking anybody. He asked specifically where is a good place to buy corals online. He then further qualified his question after not getting a lot of answers by saying that he should have posted in the Vendors forum. No harm done, just thought I'd throw out the vendors that have worked well for me.

By the way, I believe LPS = Large Polyped Scleractinian

HoopsGuru

11-21-2002, 11:28 PM

Hoops, I wasn't attacking anybody
I never said you did, I was making it perfectly clear that your statement that only one person answered his question was incorrect.

By the way, I believe LPS = Large Polyped Scleractinian
By the way, Large Polyped Stony and Large Polyped Scleractinian are synonomous. Large Polyped Stony is more commonly used as is "stony" in the hobby for the Order Scleractinia in general.[/quote]

justletmein

11-21-2002, 11:41 PM

I guess you saw his question differently, although I have no idea how it can be read any other way. I really don't care, but I've read it several times now and he was very clear that he was going to do mail order and asked where he should go. I was not incorrect in my statement that only 1 person prior to me answered it. He never asked *if* he should do mail order, his statement about if it goes wrong had an implied meaning that he needs a reputable MO shop to order from.

So, Stony is an accepted slang? The only reason I mention it is because I thought SPS actually meant Small Polyped Stony for the longest time. I didn't know I was wrong until doing some reading and ran across it. It wouldn't be fair to only educate people in slang would it?

HoopsGuru

11-21-2002, 11:55 PM

so what u think
Normally this kind of inquisitive statement is asking for opinions.

Stony is an accepted slang
In case you haven't noticed, there is both acceptable scientific and hobby language to describe the same thing. Even experts in the industry understand that using only scientific names is not very feasible for those in the hobby. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you probably use this so called "slang" all the time. Ever call anything a leather coral? If so then by your definition of slang you are wrong and should properly call it Alcyonlidae, and then in more detail with its scientific name. This just isn't possible in the hobby, especially when so many species are only distinguishable by their sclerites......therefore a general and easier method for the hobby was a necessity.

If you still have an issue with this "slang", I recommend you purchase Eric Borneman's Coral Husbandry book (widely accepted as the best and the premier expert in coral husbandry). He explains this pretty well and uses the "slang" himself. I suppose you could then email him with your issue.

justletmein

11-22-2002, 12:17 AM

I don't relly have an issue with common names. Yes, I use common names all the time, but if somebody asks me to define something I'll be more proper. My issue is with the SPS= statement. If you're defining an abbreviation I think it should be the correct definition.

justletmein

11-22-2002, 12:21 AM

Normally this kind of inquisitive statement is asking for opinions.

Even if it is interpreted this way, you still completely ignored his 'other' question. I would still be correct in stating that only 1 person answered the question.

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 12:37 AM

My issue is with the SPS= statement. If you're defining an abbreviation I think it should be the correct definition.

It wasn't an SPS statement but an LPS question. And as I stated before, the two terms are synonamous or interchangable. Neither is the "right" definition. If you look in the glossaries of books from Borneman, Sprung, Calfo, or the internet....you will find both as "definitions"...often together, or more frequently "stony" than "scleractinian" in this particular case.

I have heard good things about GARF and FFExpress
I gave this answer quite some time ago.

justletmein

11-22-2002, 12:40 AM

I have heard good things about GARF and FFExpress
I gave this answer quite some time ago.

Hmmm, I guess you've got me there. But it wasn't in your first post, heh... Alright, I'll quit argueing now.

Stony can't be 'as correct' as the other because it's not as hard to spell...

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 12:52 AM

HAHA! :wink: If it's any consolation....I forgot and found it while rereading the thread! :lol:

I don't fear the spelling Scleractinian as much as i fear having to say it at the spur of the moment! :shock:

Good disagreement though, it made me pull out my books.....you tricked me into researching! :evil: :lol:

justletmein

11-22-2002, 12:56 AM

Weird, I somehow missed it too...

hehe, the evil plot all along, make us all research. Muuuaaaahahahahahaha...

I don't fear the spelling Scleractinian as much as i fear having to say it at the spur of the moment! lol :lol: This is probably where the term 'Stony' achieved it's origination. I still have a hard time saying Kalkwasser in my LFS, so I just pause and say Calcium Hydroxide... hehe

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 01:03 AM

I still have a hard time saying Kalkwasser in my LFS
Isn't it odd how we go into the LFS where from researching we probably no more than most of the fresh faced workers and its still all but impossible not to feel wierd or nervous breaking out the big terms....like its the chink in our armour that if found will leave us defenseless at the checkout with a cart full of things we didn't want!

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:09 AM

True. I think deep down I'm afraid to utter any knowledge in the LFS for fear of some type of disagreement. Possibly because I'm not an old salt (yet) and am still a little insecure in my self education.

I'm afraid to go in there in general because I don't want to end up argueing with the employees. I still have a lot to learn, but watched in horror yesterday as the LFS guy was gracefully trying to talk a lady out of buying a bag of salt, an eclipse, and a seahorse all in one shot. Luckily he talked her out of it, but if she would have insisted I don't think he would have refused.

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 01:22 AM

the LFS guy was gracefully trying to talk a lady out of buying a bag of salt, an eclipse, and a seahorse all in one shot
I'm actually amazed the first part occurred. I opened my mouth out once at the LFS at a salesperson and customer picking out the mandarin he wanted for his 29 gallon tank......his kids really liked the colors. Needless to say I was looked at like I was crazy by everyone when I described its particularly "special" and advised him not to buy it. So now I just shake my head and try to keep from imploding.

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:29 AM

I probably could never work in any LFS because I'd get fired too quickly for talking people out of buying things. I wished the LFS people would have been nice enough to advise me against some of my purchases when I first started out. At the time they were my only resource, I asked so many questions but only got vague responses. Do they work on commission? This would explain a lot...

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 01:32 AM

The one's around here don't work on commision, but I'm sure they would be canned if they didn't push everything. Unfortunately, most LFS owners comfortably compromise their livestock for fatter pockets.

Boy, did we turn a thread upside down! :D

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:36 AM

heh, got some lenient moderators here. Guess they've never heard of off-topic... Sorry guys. I'll take 10% of the blame... :lol: :lol: :lol: :wink:

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 01:39 AM

And I'll gladly take 5%.....wow, someone's in deep. :P I'll blame Zack for writing too fast and jumbling his replies :P . He probably wasn't even talking about LPS!! :D :lol:

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:42 AM

The whole time he was referring to LFS not LPS, hehe. We're all so confused...

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 01:45 AM

Or maybe "male" order? :shock: :shock: :lol:

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:47 AM

:shock:

phistio

11-22-2002, 03:08 AM

i'm lurking...just waiting ring side...

but at the first sign of blood, i expect someone to throw the towell... :lol: :wink:

just kidding!

Dustin

11-22-2002, 08:56 AM

MAN! I thought there would be some deaths in that one. Not to be rude but Justin you need to calm down. Its just a post lol. Hoops was not at all wrong in giving his opinion. I love listening to arguments!

phistio

11-22-2002, 10:46 AM

who's justin?

Dustin

11-22-2002, 11:00 AM

justle... sry

HoopsGuru

11-22-2002, 12:49 PM

Ah, there was no harm done here.....it all took a surprising turn to a fun ending.

Personally, I think "disagreements" are the best way to move forward on some topics. As Justletmein and I have already publicly discussed, the "disagreement" in question here prompted research on both sides...that's a win in my book. As long as no one tries to launch a sincere personal attack, I say bring it on....I need to read more anyway. :D

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:04 PM

Whew, you guys haven't seen anything yet. I've seen flames come from my monitor looking at some people's posts on RC... (not my posts, I'm scared of those people!)

I was wondering who Justin was too... I thought I was missing something. :lol:

justletmein

11-22-2002, 01:07 PM

Dustin, you probably misjudged my tone. Pretty easy to do when you can't see the big smile on my face :D

phistio

11-22-2002, 01:21 PM

i agree just-let-me-in....

flame from other web boards resulted in fire balls shooting out of my monitor...

and it's the sort of thing we're trying to deter on this board...but there's nothing wrong with a little debate...if things get too heated, we'll promptly step-in.

it's a lot of work to try and regulate every topic, so i drink plenty of coffee... :shock: :shock: :shock: :roll: :wink:

Zack

11-22-2002, 09:17 PM

OMG wow this is an intresting thead thanks you guys for the depate, hahahah hoops yes I type fast becuse at school your not aloud to surf lol. Anyway thansk for trying to answer my question on yes it is LPS corals once again this ones for you hoops LPS go it? good! Anyway thanks
LOL 8) 8) 8) 8) :D