New ICH Treatment

[Static416]

I'm new to this forum and I have a question for you guys. Have any of you used an Ich treatment called "Kick-Ich"?

The guy at the LFS recommended it and said it was a new product that was reef safe and very effective. I just started using it and I'm hoping it will work. My Purple Tang has Ich and I don't want to loose a $100 fish that I just got, plus the treatment costs like $35.

[steve1s]

If you are refering to the product made by FishVet (http://www.fishvet.com), then there is a good possibility it will work. Keep in mind though, that these reef safe treatments are not always 100% effective and must be administered properly and completely. It's like penicilin, once you take the first one, you gotta take 'em all or it just comes back again. Make sure you remove any/all carbon or resin products as they will greatly reduce it's effectiveness.

To date, the only tried and true cures are hyposalinity (http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/hyposalinity.html) or copper.

http://members.shaw.ca/steve-s/welcome.gif To ReefLounge.com

Cheers
Steve

[Static416]

I noticed that new spots just came up on the Tang. The thing is, its only the 5th day of the treatment and I figure that the Ich is still working its way out of the Tang's body. Because Ich is only vulnerable when its outside the fish right?

[steve1s]

C. irritans is only vulnerable in it's free swimming stage called the theront. Once attached to a fish it becomes known as the trophont in which it feeds on the fishs' flesh and grows which can be anywhere from 4-6 days before letting go. Hence the treatment will not have had enough time to be affective. You are only on the second dose by this time and will require 3 more before it's done.

Depending on which stage the parasite was in when you introduced the treatment will determine at which point you will notice any effect. If added relatively soon after noticing the spots, it may be another day or two yet before seeing any positive result.

Good Luck and keep us updated on your progress.

Cheers
Steve

[jayotte2002]

I am using kick-ich by ruby reef and guess what. After 9 days of treatment my yellow tang still has ich. Not only is this ich persistent, my feather duster and my coral banded shrimp died. When I did a anomia test, it was at .50, so do your water tests. My treatment for the ich with kick-ich is a failure. My cleaner shrimp is doing a better job than the kick-ich.

$20.00 for a one liter bottle of this stuff and not working. So far I lost a shrimp, feather duster and soon to loose a tang. At least when the fish are gone, I won't worry about ich.

Best advice, put the fish in a QT and use the copper method. I did a 50% water change and the anomia is almost back to 0. But doing the water change also got rid of the kick ich. So it seems to me that ich is a no win solution except dead fish.

Good luck to you and let us know what your outcome is.

[Static416]

Given what Jayotte said, I think I may stop trying this and go with an alternate method of treatment. Is that a good idea? Should I stop and try something else halfway through a treatment?

Also, which treatment do you guys recommend, hyposalinity or copper? The hyposalinity sounds like alot of work and possibly unreliable if the salinity isn't monitored closely.

I was thinking of just getting a big Rubbermaid tub and filling it with water from my main tank. Would I need to light it as well? Also, is a substrate needed?

[Static416]

I just thought of something. I just got a new Mandarin and he won't survive in the QT for 4 weeks. I guess I'll have to leave him in the main tank and hope he doesn't catch the Ich. Unless someone else has an idea.

[steve1s]

Are you using the Ruby Reef product No-ick or the Fish-vet product Ecolibrium?

I have personally used the Ecolimbrium and had none of those problems.. Keep in mind that the doseage is for actual water volume and not tank size. You must account for displacement for substrate, rock, equipment and possible volume of sump water. Overdosing or underdosing is what would make the treatment inaccurate or potentially dangerous.

If you do switch treatment, setting up a QT is relatively easy. The rubbermaid container you suggested would be fine. No substrate or light is needed. Just a heater and some sort of filter floss corner filter with some filetr media from the main tank.

Copper must be monitored as well. Too low and it will be inaffective, too high and it kills the fish.. So there really is not much difference between the two as far as maintenance.

Hyposalinity does not require a test kit to monitor the salinity just a proper refractometer. Salinity should be at 14ppt or an SG of 1.009. The only thing you need keep an eye on really after lowering the SG is the PH and alk, they will have a tendancy to fall off.

Cheers
Steve

[Static416]

First, I'd just like to thank everyone for the helpful and quick responses, I used to use another forum and it would take at least a day or two to get a response, and even then they were no more informed than me. So thanks!

And yeah, I'm using the Ruby Reef "Kick-Ich". And like I said earlier, I doesn't really seem to be working, but it could just be the parasite working its way out of the fish. And I'm treating my 90gal with the dose for 100gal, just to allow for the water in my hang-on filters and I figured a little over is better than a little under.

I think I'll wait till the end of the treatment, I might as well. I'm not halfway through yet, I can't expect to much this early I guess.

How long did it take for your symptoms to go away Steve?

[steve1s]

I started to see results after about a week and then things cleared up quite quickly. Keep in mind though, we are not using the same product....

I would also urge caution about increasing the dosage. There could easily be adverse affects. The bottle I have lists in bold capitols actual tank water, so I think it will be quite important.

The mandarin is a tough call. It could pass without it's natural food source if treated with hypo or copper, both being a 3 week period. It would definately come out alot thinner.

Might be a consideration to setting up a permanent QT and using it for all new arrivals for 4 weeks to ensure that they do not pass parasites or other maladies to the display tank.

Cheers
Steve

[jayotte2002]

Ruby reef kick ich does not seem to work. It might work on smaller tanks, but this 55 gallon is going no where. I have decided to try the garlic method, making my own batch of feed. I know the garlic will not kill the ich, but it might help the immune system within my tang. My feed consisted of 5 shrimp, 7 clams, 2 huge scallops, 3 sheets of nori (great my wife is japanese, we have plenty of nori) and I have crushed garlic. I used a food processor to mush everything. then drained the garlic and put one tablespoon of the juices. Having no ziplock bags, one cookie sheet with wax paper will subdue.

Well, let us know how your ich problem is. I am trying another route.

Good luck.

[reeferdude]

I have had exceptional luck with this product and would recommend it. I have used this numerous times all with great success. None of my inverts or corals have shown any adverse reactions. I usually do not see a drastic improvement until near the end of the treatment.

[Static416]

Yeah, things seem to be clearing up. All the spots are gone from the Purple Tang, and he seems to be acting normally again. I know that this just may signal that the parasite is in the stage where it is outside the body, but I'm taking it as a positive sign anyway.

[AWestphal]

I hear people saying that they are spending about $20-$35 on this ick treatment. Well I still say to get a QT-how much is a 10 gallon tank, less than $30 new and then a power head and that is it. I was pretty lucky I get all my spare tanks from friends who got rid of there small tanks and at garage sales. Currently I own a 29, 2-20, 10 gallon tanks. I also got at least 2 heaters, 2 airpumps, NO lights. How much did I pay for all of this well under $20.

My husband keeps asking why I keep picking up tanks but someday I may need them. I did need them on a couple of occasions excluding the ick treatment and QT for new fish, I am glad I have them. I have a couple of friends who have borrowed them for QT and it has helped them alot.

If a fish has ick go back to the old treatment a QT with a copper treatment for 14 days and hyposalinity and elevated temp. Keep the fish in the QT for at least another 14 days after the treatment. Yes scarlet cleaner shrimp will help but not stop the ick. Always place new fish in a QT for at least 14 days. Another key factor is No filtration, carbon and protein skimmers takes out the copper, no LR or CC or SB it sucks up the copper, the only decoration should be PVC piping. Test your water and do water changes as needed. Don't forget to test the copper because certain levels are required to kick the ick.

I know it sucks to have to try and get the fish out of the main tank but this is the only way. I bought some new fish and naughty me I didn't place in a QT and all my fish ended up with ick, so I tried the shrimp didn't cure them, I then did the whole procedure I have said above and have not seen ick since. I also have a UV sterilizer on my tank, I run it with new fish and once in a while otherwise. Some peopel say this doesn't do any good but I think it has for me.

I don't want to be mean but I tried to take a short cut too with ick and it cost me probally over $200 in fish. This last time I did the right thing, to totally cure your main tank of ick you need to let it stand with no fish in it for 4-6 weeks. Like I said everything I have stated I have personally done and it has worked well for me.

Good Luck!!! AJ

[poisonberry]

Yeah, things seem to be clearing up. All the spots are gone from the Purple Tang, and he seems to be acting normally again. I know that this just may signal that the parasite is in the stage where it is outside the body, but I'm taking it as a positive sign anyway.

So, how did the saga end? Did the treatment actually work in the end?

[Chloe]

Steve1s said: Overdosing or underdosing is what would make the treatment inaccurate or potentially dangerous.

I am about to treat my 120 Gallon with the Ruby Reef Kick-Ich. I can understand how overdosing could be harmful, but how could an underdose hert it? If I have a 120 with about 280lbs of LR and CC. Figured out to treat for 85 Gallon as you can see here (http://www.reeflounge.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3609)
What do you think?

[steve1s]

An underdose wouldn't hurt at all, it just won't have any affect on the parasite... :wink:

If the directions say 2 oz/25 gal of "actual" tank water, I think you'd be safe with 8 oz per treatment addition. Remember, no carbon or resin products in the filtration.

Cheers
Steve

[Chloe]

steve1s said: Remember, no carbon or resin products in the filtration

I knew about the carbon, and this may be a STUPID question, but what do you mean by Resin?

[steve1s]

Some products have little round whitish beads and such which are used in phosphate sponges, chemi pure or other granular removal products. Those are usually resin.

Cheers
Steve

[Chloe]

Thanks, Steve!

[SIReefer]

Is it better to treat the whole tank or to quaranteen the fish(s) that are infected?

[steve1s]

Is it better to treat the whole tank or to quaranteen the fish(s) that are infected?
It is always better to quarantine the fish. Better still to quarantine all new arrivals prior to placing in the main display to prevent infecting the other fish. The quarantined fish can then be observed and then treated if needs be without possible harm to other fish or invertebrate life in the main display tank.

Cheers
Steve

[fishaddict]

Static 416, did your tang make it. What happened when you quit using kick-ich?

[Static416]

Not a very effective treatment. For less money you can setup a quaratine tank and use copper, which will definitely work in about a week to 2 weeks. Using Kick-Ich is far too expensive to not be certain it will work.

[fishaddict]

I'm almost finished with Kick-ich and it seems to be successful with me. I think I caught it very early though. My blenny died, I'm assuming from the med.