Jelly Dot disease???

[frizzbee30]

:shock: Hi, I may be new to the forum but not to the hobby. I recently re started keeping marines after previous experience of keeping them for 5 yrs plus fw tropics for 11 yrs, i am also, although not working in the field at a qualified marine biologist.Thus i've met a few 'bugs' in my time. So can anyone identify this. I have 1 damsel, 1 royal gramma and 2 neon gobys. The gramma stated with white dots 1 day after purchase. The lfs is clean, well kept,small and all the fish remain healthy. ick i thought....some spots disappeared!!, then back next day...different places!
fish was itchy but not stressed. 1 week later the severity varies during the day, from 1 to 2 spots to upto 20! Parasite I thought as the damsel is clean as clean can be. Bought the 2 neons (please don't mutter about q- ting..i know ) plus 1 cleaner shrimp. Thought if the parasite spread the neons would at least sort each other. Now they are covered! The damsel...CLEAN!! I know its not ick as 1)appearance atypical 2)damsel not infected after 2 weeks. The only link I can make is all the affected fish are fond of one piece of live rock with a few nice caves in it :!:
The 'dots' appear to be 'jelly' like or sack shaped, 1-2 mm in size, happily 'swaying' with current and fish movement. No lesions are apparent and no obvious attachment scars when gone (on the gramma)
The fish are a bit itchy but feeding well and appear happy if not totally covered. The gobies are suffering worse as they have kicked the gramma from the hidey hole. Any ideas? at first i thought a parasitic copepod but the detachment is suspect or are they removed, then i thought perhaps benign attachment...it does happen in nature. I am planning on setting up a qt but if they are not host dependant this will be a waste of time.

[Lahatiel]

could this be it, or am I on the wrong track?

http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/weekly/aa102797d.htm

(the falling off, and reappearing nature of this led me to the conclusion)

[frizzbee30]

Hi , as stated at first I thought it was cryptocaryon, however the 'spots' for want of a better word, do not have the typical appearance, also the duration of attachment does not match that typical of crypt ie on the gramma this attachment stage, without external removal has lasted from 2 to 10 hours! I have treated fish in the past with crypt. which really does have an appearance you never forget. Sizewise these spots appear slightly larger than for example cylops spp. or many of the smaller copepods you usually find attached to the tank glass.

[steve1s]

Sounds more like a protazoan parasite to me. All other aspects do appear to relate to C irritans But this part happily 'swaying' with current and fish movement does not.

If it where a fungal infection it would not appear and disappear. That is most like the behavior of a parasite as it runs through it's life cycle.

Run through the tests on the diagnosis site (http://www.aquasite.com/knowledge/disease/disease.shtml) and see what you come up with, I am leaning towards the parasite and you should strongly consider setting up a QT and treating all the fish with copper. Identifying it will be very beneficial. If you cannot find the right attacker, treatment will not be very accurate.

Any chance at all of getting a pic??

It is more than possible for the damsel to be unaffected while the gramma is. They can be extremely resiliant and if healthy enough can resists the parasite for a time. The two cleaner gobies could have succum due to the stress of transport if otherwise healthy.

Cheers
Steve

[Lahatiel]

Lymphocystis?


Symptoms: In the early stages, small opaque lesions appear on the fins. These increase in size over a short period of time to become fluffy, almost cauliflower-like clusters on the fins and body of the fish.


http://www.ageofaquarium.com/diseases.asp?name=Lymphocystis

that doesn't really look what you are describing, but at least I am learning while helping diagnose... ;)

[Lahatiel]

and I am with steve, this sounds a lot more like it:

http://www.ageofaquarium.com/diseases.asp?name=Parasites

[frizzbee30]

Thanks for the comments, I ruled out lympho pretty quick..does not develop and atypical.The large goby looked dreadful (ie TOTALLY covered) this morning, now 8 hours later mostly gone!!!!!!!??????? The Gramma is clear?? but as stated has been ousted from its hole.The smaller goby is now the main occupant of the suspect rock and hence is still covered but quite happy. I do lean towards thinking it is a parasitic problem except for one thing,why does it detach so easy? a real lousy stratergy if I remember my parasitology module. I strongly agree that that certain fish may be more susceptible than others due to stress,coating, scale type etc. I'm sure if I flushed the damsel it would happily live in the sewer system :D . I really must get a scraping and dust off the old microscope! As for a pic unfortunately my dig. camera is not of the best but I may try. Many thanks again!

[Lahatiel]

If you get it figured out, I would like to know what exactly it is and how you treated it. 'Cause, if your fish get it, then ours could too.

[frizzbee30]

8) Thanks for the reply's, well today it looks different again. I've attached a photo (not v.good!) It does keep looking like crypto but not crypto!! The gramma is 'spotless' lol .The gobies are not as bad, itchy but duller spots, not defined like ich but not as jelly like, however I was away last night so didn't see them first thing. By the way loved the pic of your tank and 'birding' starfish lol By the way the gobies are tooo happy eating all the food before even the damsel!!!

[phistio]

honestly the picture doesn't really tell me anything, as i see none of the dinospores or trophonts as described.

did you rule out marine velvet?( Amyloodinium ocellatum ) there are a few similar characterisctics as you described, as the trophonts detatch and reattach typically. but spores usually appear yellowish or light gold.

best of luck! :wink:

[frizzbee30]

Hi There, did strongly consider oodinium but the "coating" didn't appear to be present and also the "spots" were too large, as stated they looked more like small sacs. I am still considering crypto due to the fact that the shop I bought the L.R. from had one tang in it today...with obvious ich! However I cannot explaine the bizzare "jelly like" sac's , or the gramma getting better .The spots do now look more like ich on the gobies..but who knows what they'll look like tomorrow! Anyway looking round for a suitable q.t. and no more rock from that source for a while :?